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The first time I learned that someone thought I wasn't Jewish was in hebrew school when I was about 11. I remember the teacher saying something, something, some people think "...your only Jewish if your mother's Jewish." The feeling I had was like I was stunned. I remember looking at the faces of the other kids in my class and I could tell they weren't affected by it the way I was. Their faces looked serene and unbothered. I all of a sudden felt agitated and disturbed, like I wasn't legitimate. I never really thought about it much after that until I got older and it started to matter. I had some vague, hazy awareness, as a child, that my mother wasn't Jewish, but I didn't know what she was exactly. I had never had a knowledge or experience of myself as anything other than a Jewish person. When I was in situations with my family, in Israel or in a community where this issue mattered, I picked up on a "radar" from my family that I shouldn't let on that my mother wasn't Jewish. Just don't mention it. It started a complex where I felt like I had to hide things about myself and that I couldn't be completely open. I remember being in situations with my father when it would come up, and I felt betrayed by my father. My father was my protector and my defender and on occassions with cousins who were orthodox and someone would insinuate that I wasn't Jewish, my father wouldn't say anything. Why didn't he yell at them, the same as he would if somebody insulted me in any other way? How could he let them say that to me? If he was Jewish and I was his daughter, then wasn't he abandoning me to let them say I wasn't him? It took me many years, from my late adolescence to my adulthood to really get my head wrapped around the fact that someone would actually act on this belief. For a long time I understood it in an abtract sense, but didn't really believe it could really be executed practically. I was bewildered like a child growing into an awareness of the adult world. I knew it wasn't true. After living in Israel for a while, I became embittered and I asked myself, "Why should I support Israel when they treat me like a bastard?" I had been to Israel for the first time when I was 16 and I felt overwhelmed by the feeling of being "home" Everyone there was Jewish like me. I was amazed to see these mythical places like Masada that I had read about in fantastical stories in my childhood. I always defended Israel vociferously when I was around people who attacked them for being aggressors and victimizing Palestinians. Why should I continue to do that? So I questioned and spent years of being confused and hating myself. But ultimately, I can't change who I am, I can't reprogram my genes or rewrite my life. Many people say "Why not just convert?" No, I have no intention of standing up in front of God and saying that my father isn't my father or having someone ask me why I want to be Jewish, as if I have any choice in the matter. The more I studied I realized that those who believe in exclusive matrilineal heritage are not historically accurate, let alone morally accurate, and I take great comfort in knowing this. I am sharing this information on this web site because I wish someone had given me this information.
First Name: Ariel
Last Name:
State: New York
E-mail Address:
Comments: You want to be accepted? Just convert and stop being such a cry baby. If you don't want to be a Jew, don't be a Jew. No one is forcing you. Just don't pretend what you want is Judaism. Also, stop calling everyone LIARS! -- to you, all the Jews are liars. Why should we support your dumb cause if that's what you think of us. It's not the fault of the Jewish community that your father decided to marry a non-Jew. Blame your father, not the Jewish community. Your father sucks-- just face up to it. Lastly, whether you like it or not, Orthodox Jews are the ones who have passed down the religion. Without them, there would be no Judaism. Conservative and Reform Judaism are modern inventions.
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
Life forced me to be Jewish. My genes, my family, my childhood and my father, who made me who I am, are all Jewish. I had no choice in the matter. Furthermore, for your information, Orthodox Judaism is a modern invention, especially Hasidism. The Hasidic practices have more to do with Eastern European culture than with anything organically Jewish. Judaism has always undergone changes over the centuries (Please see: polygamy, slavery, stoning,...) and Orthodox Judaism came about at the end of the 18th century with the idea that nothing from then on should change. The movement was started by a Rabbi named Chatam Sofer, nom de plume Moses Schrieber. He had a virulent reaction to other Rabbis, such as Moses Mendelsohn, who were developing their thoughts in line with the European Enlightenment. He used a concept called "chadash asur min hatorah," meaning nothing new can come out of the Torah. He took this concept from a Talmudic principle that related to agricultural laws and had nothing to do with what he was bucking up against. His premise was that from that point onward nothing should change in Judaism, even though up until that point Jewish customs had always been changing to adapt to the times and also to the different cultures that Jews found themselves living in. The 18th century and Enlightenment changed society, not just Jewish society, in dramatic ways and culminated in the French Revolution. Many people didn't like these changes and Orthodox Judaism grew out of this. Reform Judaism started at the beginning of the 19th century, so Orthodoxy is about the same age. There have always been great differences of opinions and practices within Judaism and no one before ever said to the other that they weren't Jewish. There are pages in the Talmud that discuss how to handle being in communities that have different customs from your own, and they aren't talking about gentile communities, but other Jewish communities. "Orthodox" is Greek for "one way" because that is the goal of Orthodox Jews, to establish a rigid, uniform observance, where there never has been one before. The Orthodox siddur didn't actually congeal until the end of the 19th century. And customs like considering the use of electricity to be violating the sabbath are millenia old traditions, AREN'T THEY? I would like to thank you for your e-mail though, because your hate-filled mouth garbage has confirmed to me how right I am. You obviously haven't read anything on my web site or you would realize that everything I say is based on the Torah. Orthodox Jews practice idolotry. They worship Rashi rather than God and the Torah. The Talmud is interpretation, which means INTERPRETATION. It was written by deeply flawed men, not God. Given the fact that Orthodox Jews make up only 10% of the Jewish population, it really isn't a question of us being accepted by them, but us deciding if we want to let them stay within the Jewish community. Personally, my vote would be no. The energy for major social change is bubbling just under the surface. All it needs is to be harnessed and focused. Maybe you should read some Shakespeare sometimes. "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." In the meantime, I suggest you read Isaiah. Take note of chapter 29:13-14:
"My Lord said: Because that people has approached [Me] with its mouth And honored Me with its lips, But has kept its heart far from Me, And its worship of Me has been A commandment of men, learned by rote- Truly, I shall further baffle that people With bafflement upon bafflement; And the wisdom of its wise shall fail, And the prudence of its prudent shall vanish."
AMEYN
First Name: Micah Last Name: State: E-mail Address: Comments: I would just like to agree whole heartedly with the editor. Judaism has always been a religion of difference, of divergent views. Take, for example, Josephus' description of Second Temple Judaism in which he identifies three distince sects (Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes). Note also how the discoveries at Qumran attest to the existence of a non-rabbinic halakhic system, and how the prescence of Karaites (Jews who reject derash readings of scripture)shows the existence of non-Rabbinc approaches to Tanakh. The diea that Judaism is monolithic, dependent only on one form for its transmission is utterly unfounded; the idea of patrilineal heritage is a legitimate approach to scripture. Thankyou.
First Name: J.R. Last Name: Wilheim State: New York E-mail Address: jrwilheim@yahoo.com Comments: Just a quick correction to something you said in reply to an earlier poster. Moses Mendelssohn was not a rabbi, just a major Jewish philosopher of the 18th century.
I have no problems with anything else you wrote in that post.
First Name: David Last Name: State: Illinois E-mail Address: Comments: You mention that you are going to send letters to the Isralei Embassy. Doesn't Isreal already recognize you as a Jew? Even if only one grandparent is you could immigrate there and I'm sure they'd love it.
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
Yes, I am aware of that and I have lived in Israel, as you should have noted above. However, once there, my identity card won't say I'm Jewish, I cannot get married, I cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery and if I were to die in combat, I could not be buried in a military cemetery. Why would I go to Israel if not to live as a a Jew? To see the fashion shows? This web site isn't just about Israel, anyway. It is about the whole Jewish community. First Name: Julia Last Name: State: E-mail Address: Comments: I have just come across your site and am so thankful! You have set out exactly what I have been trying to tell people for years. However, I have been banging my head against a wall. I feel that people are totally irrational and extremely emotional about this issue. It is as though otherwise very clever people have been totally brainwashed and can not think clearly. My father is Jewish and my mother is 'three quarters' Jewish. However, because my maternal great grandmother was not Jewish I have been told I have to convert if I want to go out with a Jewish man. Other Jews treat me as though I am not Jewish at all, but somebody with a Jewish mother would not have to go through all of this!
First Name: Russell Last Name: Cohen State: ZA E-mail Address: rlcohen@nuinet.com Comments: Patrilineal descent and DNA
I came across this talkback on the Jerusalem Post website, and thought it might be of interest to other visitors to the jewish patrilineal descent (http://www.jewishjustice.com/messageboard.html) website. Unfortunately I havenÂ’t yet been able to follow up on the DNA studies mentioned. I have reproduced the talkback below, as these articles and the readersÂ’ comments are generally not available online for very long.
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30. torah says judaism is patrilineal jessy 02/25/2007 16:01
The Torah says Judaism is patrilineal. Moses' wife Zippora was not Jewish and her children, Gershom and Eliezer, were definitely Jewish. The Talmud, which was not written until the 8th century, says it is matrilineal. DNA studies have proven the patrilineal origins of Judaism. Male Y chromosomes from Jewish communities across the globe are of middle eastern origins, but female mitochondrial DNA from the same communities is similar to their host communities, not middle eastern.
People seem to take Chabad seriously and they think everyone has to believe and do exactly as they say or they aren´t Jewish. They have a 24 hour web cam on Schneerson´s grave to watch for when he rises from the dead and they control everything! You´re calling me extreme?
First Name: Anthony Last Name: Fallon State: Manchester, U.K. E-mail Address: antony.falon@ntlworld.com Comments: My son is not Halachically Jewish & he is also mixed race. He attends an Orthodox Jewish primary school. It was easy to secure him a place there. In the U.K., Faith schools are not allowed to carry empty places in each year.If there are not enough Halachic Jews to take up places then the school has to offer places to Non Halachic Jews & after that to gentile children. As the population of Halachic Jews in the U.K. is going down faster than a lead balloon (from 450,000 to 250,000 in the last 50 years, getting my son in to an Orthodox school was easy. The story so far is that my son loves the school & the school loves him being there. Also, because he is mixed race, he represents a very useful statistic for the school especially when it comes to School Inspectors & the Local Education Authority, whose policy has always been to attract this type of integration...Also, don't you find it totally HYPOCRITICAL that some narrow minded members of our community who don't acc! ept non Halachic Jews are totally comfortable when it comes to including these people in the 6 million Holocaust deaths. The Nazis, under there own racial laws considered anyone with one Jewish grandparent to be Jewish & these people met their gruesome death in exactly the same way as the most religious Jew from Poland & elsewhere. Out of a total of 6 milion, there must have been hundreds of thousands of Non-Halachic Jews, given the fact that the level of assimilation in countries like Germany & Austria was so high in the 1930's & 1940's. Whenever i have written articles about this particular Hypocracy, Orthodox Jews have not tried to challenge me, they have always kept SHTUM because they know i am right !!!
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
Yes, when they need us, we're Jewish.
First Name: Gene Last Name: S. State: TX E-mail Address: genecps@yahoo.com Comments: The Messiah criteria:
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. (In the criteria for a Messiah, nothing is stated about the mother, because at the time of the writing, it was not important.)
First Name: Apurv Last Name: Gulati State: Georgia E-mail Address: apurvag@email.com Comments: I certainly applaud your sincerity and your passion.
I disagree with a major part of your proposed actions, however. I am not entirely sure why you have such antipathy towards the Jewish state or the organized Jewish community in general. In particular, you have many good points regarding intermarriage, but you don't address a rather important one. The concept of the Jews as a distinct people (or ethnicity) comes under serious strain with prolonged and significant intermarriage. Perhaps a Jewish identity can be maintained with only one Jewish parent (and an approving gentile parent). That is still a difficult task, but it is possible. Nonetheless, how do you maintain a comprehensive and strong Jewish identity with one Jewish grandparent? How about one Jewish great-grandparent. What I am saying is that while some may be able to do so, the greater likelihood is that the masses will completely acculturate and assimilate in their surrounding culture. Jewish culture and Jewish identity is a complex feature of life, and w! hen you take away a familial bond, I think you lose the richness of the culture.
I realize that you are essentially correct. I have thought often of Philo, being thought of as a Jewish philosopher despite his non-Jewish mother, and others.
In my personal experience, I have known many people with one Jewish parent. Their matrilineal or patrilineal heritage did not always matter. One girl, with a Jewish mother, had virtually no Jewish identity. One boy, with a Jewish father, was as Jewish as anyone else I know. Despite this, these Jews are also more likely to intermarry than the general Jewish population (those with two Jewish parents). When you start having multiple issues of heritage (Irish, Swedish, African-American), you can start looking at Judaism as a religion, but you START to lose Jews as a distinct people.
Maybe that's what you want. Maybe you'd prefer that Judaism become something akin to Christianity or Islam, with multiple sects or denominations, seeing themselves as separate from each other. And, in part, they already are.
But, they are united by culture, tradition, and family. They are united by the sense that there is a Jewish history of a people in a single ethnicity, despite their dispersal throughout the nations.
Your site seems angry. I believe you. Patrilineal descent has more textual validity. The Reform movement believes you, too. The Orthodox movement will never change. Your argument is with the Conservative movement. If you direct more of your energy toward Conservative Judaism, you may have more success.
I understand why you don't want to convert. It is, in a sense, an insult. But, I do not understand why you are essentially so supportive of intermarriage in general. As a strategy for the preservation of the Jewish people, it fails completely, over time. It would ensure that Judaism (in some rather amended form) could survive, but it would not allow for the Jewish people to survive in its current form. And a long history of solidarity with a people thousands of years old would die with it. A little intermarriage is fine -- every culture has that. A lot of intermarriage (i.e. completely removing the stigma) and you will be left with a religion alone.
Maybe that's what you want, but it's not what I want. And I am someone who agrees with you on your main point -- the textual analysis supporting patrilineal descent.
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
I do not believe that I have said anywhere that I support intermarriage. Having experienced it myself, I am against it. Putting religious arguments aside, on a personal level it is very confusing and stressful on the children. It is well documented that the divorce rate among intermarried Jews is 50% higher than among inmarried. That's not good for children. My own parents divorced and I perceive a lot of that due to cultural differences. However, the children should not be used as pawns in these situations. I have read a lot of literature written by Conservative Rabbis saying that allowing for patrilineal descent would take pressure off of Jewish men to marry Jewish women or for their wives to convert. That may or may not be true, but the only loser is the child, who has no control over what their parents do.I don't know where you got the impression that I am promoting intermarriage. Children of intermarriage may be less likely to be Jewish adults, but some of them may be biologically half-Jewish but only know one of their parents due to death or divorce. They don't deserve to be punished for that by the Jewish community.
You make a good point about how someone can maintain a Jewish identity if they only have one Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent. You should pose that question to the Orthodox, because they think someone like that is Jewish, as long as it's the maternal grandmother or the mother's maternal grandmother.
I don't expect the Orthodox to change their mind, nor do I care if they do. But Israel needs to remove them from the authority they have over religious life in Israel, so that patrilineals have the right to marry and practice their religion. I am against conversion by patrilineals for many reasons, but primarily because the "halacha" states that the Jewish man is NOT the father of the child. If the child converts, it cannot use it's father's name in religious ceremonies. I will never do that.
First Name: Avi Last Name: State: CA E-mail Address: Comments: I think you are doing a good thing here. Being a patrilineal Jew sucks having all that abuse. But I like to stay positive. Have faith in progress I say! Orthodox will never change, but I think that someday both the conservative movement and the state of Israel will recognize us as full jews. We just have to keep faith, as it were.
First Name: David Last Name: Simon State: Ontario E-mail Address: VeryNiceFellow@aol.com Comments: Why not start your own 'branch' of Judaism for patilineals? It would take less time than waiting for the Orthodox to change.
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
I'm not trying to get the Orthodox to change their mind. I'm trying to get the rest of the community to excommunicate the Orthodox and remove them from any control over religious life in Israel. It could be done tomorrow if we all got together. They're a minority.
First Name: Samantha Rose Last Name: Gold State: Quebec, CANADA E-mail Address: gold.samantha@gmail.com Comments: "What being Jewish meant to me and how it impacted my Life"
In addressing the aforementioned question, I must first deal with the question of what 'being Jewish' means to the questionnaire. Is the Jewish identity in the heart and head, or defined by which parent is Jewish? These questions must be addressed because I am the product of a union said to be the cause of Judaism's extinction.
I am the product of intermarriage.
I grew up believing that I was Jewish. My parents brought me to Reform services; where I sat in the non segregated seats listening to the female Chazzan spout beautiful music. I never understood the words spoken, but they had a deeper meaning to me than any Catholic mass. My mother, a Filipino Catholic, never said a word to me about our 'exile status' in the Jewish Community because we were caught in the middle of a community that cannot make up its mind about where my siblings and I belong. Of this I was completely unaware. My brothers were Bar Mitzvahed, learning Hebrew and reading from the Torah, and we celebrated the major holidays i.e. Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Chanukah, and Passover in the traditional way, eating like pigs while my Zaide, an aging physician, held court. To Montreal's Reform Community, we were just like any other kids, except that our skin was darker and our eyes more slanted. I never heard any murmurs, and no one ever said a word about my mother, a proud Southeast Asian woman who attended Synagogue in an immaculate designer suit and heels.
My first awareness of my 'questionable status' in the Jewish Community came when I was fourteen years old. I was having trouble, and my parents had decided to switch me to an all girls' Catholic school. My best friend at the time was a swarthy Jewish girl who, fearing that she'd never see me again, hurled insults at me with aplomb.
"Do what you want," she said "but no matter what you do; they're not going to accept a half-breed!"
It was the first time I'd ever heard that term outside of history class, and afterward I took a good long look at myself in the mirror. I saw features that weren't quite Ashkenazi, but weren't exactly Asian either. In my heart and in my head, I am Jewish, whether it is because my immortal soul is Jewish, or if it is due to how I was raised, I don't know.
When I was eighteen, my questionable status was highlighted even further by one the biggest hypocrites I have ever known. She stood before me, clad in denim hot pants and a tank top, a blond Lubavitch nymphomaniac moonlighting as the modern woman, telling me over and over again that I wasn't Jewish, despite any attempt of mine to refute it. Feeling humiliated and alone, I did my homework, and discovered the truth. My mother isn't Jewish, and therefore, I am not Jewish, and no amount of belief will change that.
I've been angry and confused ever since, finding myself in a masochistic rut where I ended up dating a couple of Jewish guys. I suppose I'm a kind of fetish for them; a woman Asian enough to satisfy their 'yellow fever', and Jewish enough to understand the bulk of their neuroses. Both men were of Orthodox Origin and have presented me to parents who eye me with a combination of open hostility and frosty acceptance. Even my friends, people who would allegedly stick by me through thick and thin, constantly remind me that I have to convert to Judaism if I want to marry my current boyfriend. A couple of friends; deeply religious people who never so much as held hands before their marriage, push the number of the man running the Orthodox conversion at me constantly. With their efforts comes the blatantly underlying threat that if I marry my beau before a process that I feel I don't need, then I lose their friendship. With one fell swoop, I become just like every other Shiksa, an evil temptress luring one of the faithful from their path, tainting their society with more goy children.
I am Jewish in my heart and in my mind, but to the people around me, I'm just a half-breed; a mistake; a bi product of a union religious Jews blame for their impending demise. People constantly take for granted that they have one clear identity; whereas I am torn between the identity in my heart and the community that seeks to weaken it by shaming me into conversion, or pushing me out completely. Instead of sympathy for my plight, people's faces change when they learn of my parentage; they become meaner, crueler. I am automatically dismissed. They become colder, less open, and I can all but see them running to hide their sons from me, the evil temptress.
Being Jewish has been a blessing and a curse. It has filled me with happy memories of celebrating the holidays with a family as loony as the Adams, and taught me to strive for excellence in the face of impending doom. It has been a burden that becomes so heavy I cannot breathe. It has exposed me to more discrimination than I think I would have faced if my father had converted to Christianity and turned his back on the tribes of Abraham forever.
I am a hybrid, a half-breed, a Filipino Jew punished by Judaism because my father was the Jewish parent and not my mother. I stand between the Reform, Orthodox, and Reconstructionist communities, sitting through religious services, silently screaming to God.
Where do I belong? First Name: howard Last Name: davis State: uk E-mail Address: howpatdevon@hotmail.co.uk Comments: i.am.half.jewish@religeon.as.never.bothered.me.i.try.to.respect.all.but.to.me.it.is.all.a.load.of.bunk. my.motto.is.what.ever.turns.you.on.i.iam.65.and.we.are.not.here.for.ever.
First Name: Christopher Alan Last Name: Feuerstein State: E-mail Address: Comments: Hello. I found your website when I went online after a friend at work and I had a long talk. He is a devout Christian and when I told him that my father came from a Jewish background, he asked me if I was Jewish too. I told him no because I was brought up without religious education. My mother was raised Catholic but when I was in 10th grade, she began to study Judaism and started to observe someof the Bible commandments like refraining from sex (!) for 2 weeks a month (my father told me this years later). She now attends a reform temple I think but my father, whose mother was a convert and his father was born to a Jewish woman but became a Buddhist when he lived in a commune in Oregon in the 1960's (they got divorced when he was little), wants nothing to do with them. The truth is, I don't think I'm Jewish but I just don't know enough about this to be sure. Can you enlighten me on this?
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
Are you Jewish? That's all a question of perception. Most religious institutions would not consider you to be Jewish because you have never participated in Jewish religious practices. Israel would consider you Jewish enough to give you citizenship, but once there they would classify you as a non-Jew because the Orthodox Rabbinate, which controls life in Israel would not consider you to be Jewish. Those who consider being Jewish to be a question of ethnicity would most likely not consider you to be Jewish because you have only 1 ethnically Jewish grandparent. Some Reform congregations might accept you, but most wouldn't. Do you consider yourself to be Jewish? You have to answer that question yourself. If your wondering, go explore! But as you do, don't believe the Orthodox when they tell you that what they practice is the only form of Judaism. It's not. Good luck!
First Name: Fred Last Name: State: Argentina E-mail Address: Comments: I think that there is a case for whatever form of judaism you would like to have and for all the recognitions of judaism or jew. But judaism is about values and if you fight for a just cause you must use that values at all their extent. That is why I think the the jokes or fun or all those means that you are using to show the world your view are not addecuate and are as low as the ones the other visions are using agaisnt you.
First Name: Marwin V. Last Name: Sitompul State: Indonesia E-mail Address: Comments: Shalom
Eventhough, I'm not a jew, I agree that Judaism is Patrilineal, not Matrilineal.
According to Professor Shaye Cohen of Brown University:
"Numerous Israelites heroes and kings married foreign (NON - JEWISH - ISRAELITES) women: for example, Judah married a Canaanite, Joseph an Egyptian, Moses a Midianite and an Ethiopian, David a Philistine, and Solomon women of every description. By her marriage with an Israelite man a foreign women joined the clan, people, and religion of her husband. It never occurred to anyone in pre-exilic times to argue that such marriages were null and void, that foreign women must "convert" to Judaism, or that the off-spring of the marriage were not Israelite if the women did not convert."
Matrilineal descent, the passing down of a child's Jewish identity via the mother, is not a biblical principle.
In biblical times, many Jewish men married non-Jews (women), and their children's status was determined by the father's religion.
Who is a Jew? Matrilineal or Patrilneal? (Based on Karaites)
Most Karaites believe in patrilineal descent, meaning that if your father is Jewish than you are Jewish. This is based primarily on the fact that all descent in the Bible goes according to the male line.
I think this is the Biblical one about The Patrilineal (Paternal). Maybe this may help all of you who that confuse if he or she a jwe or not!
Shalom
First Name: David Last Name: Marshall State: E-mail Address: dave@shallmar.com Comments: There is already a traditional Jewish movement which in fact is purely patrilineal. It's called Karaite Judaism. You should google it. Believe it or not, even some Israeli Orthodox rabbis accept Karaite Judaism as a form of Judaism, not that that matters to you. However I have read many of the Karaite Judaism websites, and although they are a very vibrant Jewish community. If I were a patrilineal Jew I would definitely join the Karaites. This way you can exercise pressure on Israel and on Conservative Judaism to change their stance, since Karaite Judaism is very traditional in the sense that they believe in Torah from Sinai, although they reject the Talmud.
RAV WEBMASTER SAYS:
Thanks for the advice. I'm not a Karaite and my family tradition isn't Karaitism, so not helpful !
First Name: Kosinathi Imanuel haben beit Shmonlevi Ha Kohenim wa Nyati Last Name: Ben Israel State: E-mail Address: Comments: Matrilineal or Patrilineal descent
Taken from a discussion on Kulanu's listserv: November 2001
• Matrilineal descent:
It is commonly held in the West that Jewishness follows matrilinealy. This is expressed in a variety of ways and circumstances, citing numerous rabbinical sources and is widely regarded as accepted practice
• Patrilineal descent:
This may be true for the west and westernised Jews as we have already noticed but for eastern Hebrews including South African Yisraelites who are far in the majority of the Hebrew family have from Adaham always been patriarchal, period. For such a tiny minority to dictate and impose something different to what the original majority has done for millennia is typical of western imperial conservatism. Everything seems as though it must be to your western standards and we the primitive natives of the east and third world must stupidly and simply follow. I wonder what the response would be if the tables were swapped around and we dictated to you.
My original argument was that male seed lineage is our (culture) not tradition and that the matrilineal order was only introduced temporarily/ traditionally as a mechanism for the continuity of our people til we could return to our ORIGINAL (culture) like the patriarchal lineage patterns as illustrated in our Holy Torah.
Ephrahim's daughters who married their cousins to return the inheritance back to their male counterparts will exemplify this motion.
Abbot Yisraelim, Avraham, Yisak, Yakov vi Benei Reuben le Benyamin, typify our lineage culture through the male seed and is not a religion but a way of life or ethic of culture for our very survival. Rabbinical decisions to establish the matrilineal descents were made after long debates, this is true but so obviously they were changing something to something else.
I think they (The Rabbis of the Rabbinic Order) changing a patriarchal culture to a matrilineal order or tradition as a temporary measure not a permanent feature and this is my original and only point. Politics has swayed us away from the truth of our original Halakha and we are just denying the truth it seems? Understanding and re-learning our Halakha is important but conversion seems extreme and we will never bow or adhere to such nonsense. Our original Halakha is patriarchal otherwise AdaHama, Noah, Shem, Ham and Japheth were ladies. Somehow I do not think so! Read your Hamush! We follow what Hash-m instructs our kohenim, not what a group of Rabbis say only. The truth of Y-h shall forever prevail, brucha ha'amat le kul. le shana tov Kosinathi Imanuel haben beit Shmonlevi Ha Kohenim wa Nyati
Your feedback postings are too long and repetative to post to the message board. I'm familiar with all the arguments you've made and they're based on some Rabbinic writings, however you haven't provided any "proof" of anything. Proof is concrete evidence, not inference and all you do is say things like "it must have been" or "they must have converted." That's an inference. I don't know who you've been talking to but I don't make any claim on my page that David wasn't Jewish. He certainly was, because his father was. What isn't known is whether his mother was Jewish because his mother is never mentioned anywhere in the Torah or any of the apocryphal literature. Despite your claim that she "must have been," neither you nor I nor anyone else will ever know. Your discussion of the passage in Deuteronomy is just a recitation of a Talmudic argument, which is hotly contested by Rashi and the Tosafists.
You may consider being Jewish to be merely a question of religious observance, but the facts state otherwise. Jews can be genetically identified, we carry genes for certain diseases and the tribal affiliation (Cohen, Levi) can be positively identified by the Y chromosome. I belonged to a synagogue once that held a blood test drive looking for a suitable bone marrow donor for a member that had leukemia. His best chances for finding a compatible donor was with people who he was closely related to genetically. None of his family members were compatible matches so he held a series of blood tests at all of the area synagogues in hopes of finding a suitable match. He chose the synagogues because the next closest blood relations he had after his family were other Ashkenazi Jews. This was on the advice of his doctor. Besides this fact, your argument is incoherent because Judaism is passed down genetically by the mother, according to you, so then how can you also claim that being Jewish is merely a question of accepting and living according to "Jewish law?"
I could continue ad infinitum but ultimately I know it wouldn't make any difference because you can't argue with a crazy man. Someday soon I hope that we who are in the majority of the Jewish community will get together and decide that you aren't Jewish. (And you left the wrong e-mail address.)